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By settling on the slogan “Putin or Blocher Initiative,”
they essentially reinforced a polarization that has

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supplanted any objective discussion of the initiative’s content.

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And so today we're basically caught up in the usual
political squabble—the SVP against the rest of the parties…

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On the other hand, sanctions do not affect
governments; rather, they affect the people.

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And that is what is so troubling when they target
the people, because the economic boycott has

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left them with no food, no water, and no healthcare.

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So that's one thing, and there's more:
namely, that the sanctions result in deaths.

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Sanctions kill; they are not an instrument of
peace, but rather a tool used by the powerful to

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impose their own position and their own policies.

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Neutrality isn't a matter of personal preference: Who do I like?

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Rather, it is a principle that we have
been following for nearly 200 years now.

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We stand apart from wars. We do not want
war ourselves. We want to serve peace.

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Welcome, Prof. Dr. Wolf Linder.

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You're a political scientist, and you run
the website swissneutralitynow.ch. Hello.

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They are co-authors of the open letter to the
leadership of the Social Democratic Party of Switzerland.

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After all, this party leadership is
opposed to the neutrality initiative.

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What led you to write this open letter?

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Yes, I'm one of those who support the initiative.

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We have the website, we put out a call for action, but
we never had the opportunity to explain our reasoning in

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more detail to the party leadership or a party committee.

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On top of that, all the invitations we sent—we
invited them—were either ignored or declined.

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On top of that, the party leadership did not actually
allow any discussion on a larger scale at all; it

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adopted the slogan without convening a party convention.

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That's what we found—that's the first issue that
won't work when it comes to such an important matter.

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Second: By settling on the slogan “Putin or Blocher Initiative,”
they essentially reinforced a polarization that has overshadowed

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any objective discussion of the initiative’s content.

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And so today we’re actually caught up in the usual partisan
squabbling—the SVP against the rest of the parties—instead

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of discussing the important issue, the substantive issue:

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Will Switzerland still be neutral in 20 years? Can
it remain so, and what would be the consequences?

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Or will it join NATO, the EU, and other organizations?

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This question can no longer be
raised in this referendum campaign.

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Switzerland—that is, official Switzerland—adopted
the EU sanctions against Russia in 2022 and also

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stated that this is compatible with its neutrality.

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However, in your open letter, you wrote that
economic sanctions are not a means of

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achieving peace, but rather an instrument of war.

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And you also said—this is a quote from you—“Sanctions kill.”

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What leads you to that conclusion?

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Ideally, sanctions are accepted or imposed as a form
of punishment for violations of international law.

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In fact, very few sanctions are imposed
solely because of violations of international law.

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Rather, it is a completely arbitrary regime in which
powerful states impose sanctions on less powerful ones.

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I can illustrate this with an example.

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The sanctions against Russia were imposed by the EU.

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But the attacks by the U.S. and Israel against
Iran—I haven't heard of any resistance to them.

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These are simply completely arbitrary sanctions,
or it is a completely arbitrary regime that decides

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who imposes sanctions and who is affected by them.

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Then, when you look at the results, it turns
out that the goal of replacing a bad government

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with a better one is practically never achieved.

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On the other hand, sanctions do not affect
governments; rather, they affect the people.

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And that is what is concerning when they target the
people, because the economic boycott has left them

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with no food, no water, and no access to healthcare.

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Then there's that, and it goes even
further: sanctions can lead to death.

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According to estimates by the world's most renowned institution
, 500,000 people are killed each year as a result of sanctions.

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Just imagine that number—it's more than the
number of war deaths worldwide each year.

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And that is why: Sanctions kill; they are not an
instrument of peace, but a tool used by the powerful

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to impose their own position and their own policies.

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How should Switzerland have acted in 2022?

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What would have been better than adopting the EU sanctions?

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Well, there would have been alternatives.

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One of the best, most experienced, and sharpest diplomats—namely
Paul Widmer—recently said that Switzerland could have responded

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in the same way it did in 2014 during the Crimea crisis.

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At that time, Switzerland imposed the "Courant normal."

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In other words, Russia was subjected to a
regime at that time under which trade was frozen.

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So, trade is limited to the same level as before the
Crimean conflict, and anything beyond that is prohibited.

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And that also ruled out any circumvention of the sanctions,
and the country was left without sanctions …, yet it was

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made clear that they did not agree with this Crimea situation.

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And that would have been the alternative in
2022 as well, regarding the issue of Ukraine.

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And Switzerland could have remained neutral.

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Because that's the biggest joke of all.

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So our foreign minister says that Switzerland
will remain neutral, despite these sanctions.

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And yet President Biden in the U.S. and Putin have both
said, practically in unison: Switzerland is no longer neutral.

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The American president is smiling because the U.S. has never
been fond of Swiss neutrality—it would prefer integration.

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And Putin, presumably, with some regret, because he realized
that this means Switzerland can no longer serve as a mediator.

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Opponents of the neutrality initiative argue that if, in the
event of a conflict or war, one treats the aggressor and the

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victim equally, then one would be siding with the stronger party.

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What would you say to that statement?

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Well, that's, of course, a common argument.

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It is an argument that essentially calls
for a country to follow its sympathies.

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That's clear—in the case of Russian
aggression, public sympathy clearly lies with Ukraine.

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How can it be that when a big team plays against a small
one, you have to take a stand—you can't remain neutral.

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However, that is a matter of personal
preference and a matter of ethical principles.

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And when it comes to neutrality, that's not enough.

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Neutrality isn't a matter of personal preference: Who do I like?

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Rather, it is a principle that we have
been following for nearly 200 years now.

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We stand apart from wars. We ourselves
do not want war. We want to serve peace.

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And that, in fact, is the moral stance of neutrality.

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The government has an obligation to maintain a neutral stance
toward both sides, especially in the event of such a conflict.

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And so neutrality has two sides.

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On the one hand, it takes these sympathies into account.

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Well, people can… We’ve brought 90,000
Ukrainians to Switzerland—that’s the

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humanitarian aspect, and that remains an open question.

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But from a political standpoint, the
government cannot show sympathy for a regime.

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Rather, it must remain neutral even in such a case.

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So, sympathy and solidarity for those affected by war.

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But—and this is the heart of
neutrality—the essence of neutrality says:

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"No fraternizing with any regime, and no
dividing the world into the good and the bad, as

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President Bush did back then with the 'Axis of Evil.'"

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Very good. Yes.

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Is that okay?

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That's great. Thank you very much for the interview.